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[–]sciencemercenary 6 points7 points  (5 children)

Wouldn't it be more cost effective to collaborate with existing providers? For instance, work with Planet, Maxar, or Blacksky to obtain free or discounted imagery for needed areas to support NGOs? They might already have policies and processes in place for this kind of effort.

[–]Common_Space_world[S] 3 points4 points  (4 children)

We have a few issues with the current commercial providers that require us to build our own satellites:
1. Independence - commercial providers are all very tightly integrated with the defense and intelligence community. I've got no issue with that, but it doesn't allow for open access to imagery, or non-political access to imagery - because of those ties to the government, you get things like the US cutting off access to Ukraine (https://www.politico.eu/article/us-satellite-company-maxar-cuts-off-ukraine-access-imagery-report-says/)... the US has also cut access of the G-EGD contract to the UN and World Food Program, and we've been talking to journalists and humanitarian groups that aren't able to get permission to use the imagery, even if they are paying due to government intervention

  1. Tasking Conflicts - Commercial providers task to the highest bidder... and that's usually the USG, and that's fine, but asking humanitarian organizations to pay the margins that USG does doesn't work, it's cheaper just to build a few and launch them. USG also has priority tasking for Maxar, and some of the other commercial companies, so even if these NGOs were willing to pay, they wouldn't be able to win when the government has priority paid for. So, we are proposing that NGOs and humanitarian gorups get priority for tasking, and we are cutting the Government out of this process, they have enough senors, and contracts, we'd be glad for them to take advantage of our open data later, but we need to remain in control of our own tasking.

Regardless of the capacity limitations on tasking, if your business model is to sell the imagery to the highest bidder, you dont have a dedicated mission. We are looking to be a dedicated mission-driven partner to these organizations.

  1. Licensing - Many of these organizations do have tasking relationships with the current providers, but the friction to overcome the licensing and public release of information is slow and expensive. Commercial providers try to protect their imagery and their archives (with the exception of Umbra), for some future revenue stream. Current licensing structures need to change, and we're asking for commercial companies to open more data through their open data programs and more activations through the International Disaster Charter. However, Open data programs have been falling out of favor. Maxar hasn't released open data since Sept 2024, and Planet hasn't released open data for their disaster program since 2017, and Airbus doesn't even have an Open Data program. Side note, the International Disasters Charter doesn't allow activations for conflict... only 'natural' disasters, so there is also a huge gap there.

  2. Discounts - Many of these organizations offer discounts, but they discount anyone who bargains with them, and they haven't been consistent supporters of these missions; they are overlooked by the commercial industry, which can barely maintain itself as it is.(https://breakingdefense.com/2025/06/us-cuts-to-commercial-space-imagery-could-endanger-long-term-health-of-industry-say-insiders/)

The Value of the data is massive, but the commercial market for this data hasn't been proven, and i think we'll see a contraction in the next few years due to the lack of a commercial market, which is being held back by the defense market.

Anyways, long answer to your question, but I've given it some thought. I'd be very willing to buy a satellite or set of satellites from one of the providers to operate independently of their constellations, much like sovereign nations building out Satellites As A Service. In the end, our goal is to get more of the data out of hte commercial providers, and into the hands of the users that need the data, not getting more money into a model that i'm not convinced is sustainable.

[–]HeWhoWalksTheEarth 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I work for a satellite data provider and unfortunately you’ve hit the nail on the head. We even have a corporate responsibility policy that encourages us to work with journalists and humanitarian organizations on a pro-bono basis but it still has the exact limitations you’ve just listed. 80% of the revenue for high resolution data comes from defense and often the funding to build and launch is partially paid by defense contacts also.

I 100% support your endeavors even if I don’t yet see how it would be financially possible.

[–]Common_Space_world[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Costs have come down dramatically, so I'm mostly looking at FireSat and MethaneSat as the model of a public good satellite. Obviously, the funding is the hard part, but I think the time is now to make this happen. Need is skyrocketing, and the cuts to USAID, UN, and Humanitarian organizations mean we need to rethink our systems and how we support those other vital systems in a way that scales.

This is also why we're pushing on the survey, to show the breadth and depth of use cases that would be supported from a system like this. We work in a weird industry where there is an insane amount of value in the data we work with, but the for-profit model inserts itself in a way that limits that value from being realized... so, this is my attempt to rectify that.

Appreciate the support!

[–]Badfaerie 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I hear you and applaud what you are trying to do. Muon Space is building and launching sats along these lines. You might want to talk to them to see what advice they can offer.

[–]Common_Space_world[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Love Muon Space, and i've been talking with them, they would be an ideal partner for this. They are excellent on engineering and philosophically aligned. Appreciate the shout-out to them!

[–]NilsTillander 4 points5 points  (5 children)

By the time you have a Pleiade or Worldview equivalent, you could have rapid-tasked the Worldview Legion, Pleiade Neo or the better products from Planet for all relevant emergencies for like 25 years.

And one won't do you much good, as you'll have horrendous revisit time, so you need a collection.

What's your budget?

[–]Common_Space_world[S] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Not looking for a 30cm system - the 1m to 70cm (Pan, RGB, NIR) systems are incredibly cheap these days... depending on coverage, resolution, etc, you're talking $3-6M per satellite. 6 satellites in a mid-inclination orbit could get us close to daily revisit, in the areas we care about. Operational costs are actually greater than the build and launch costs on an annual basis per satellite

[–]NilsTillander 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Yeah, I was taking into account the op costs. Transmission, storage, processing...

Building something good is hard and costly, launching as well.

If this was a commercially viable project, Planet/Maxar/someone else would have it up by now, as it wouldn't be much of a strain on their established infra.

[–]Common_Space_world[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Yeah, the goal isn't to be commercially viable, though. Running this as a nonprofit, while more difficult on funding, provides some advantages, such as independence and mission focus. I dont need to hire a sales team, because I'm not doing sales, I just need to work with impact-driven partners, of which there are already plenty that have a need for the data that the current commercial providers aren't supporting.

We're focused on building something that is 'good enough', so very similar to a BlackSky or a Satellogic System (or just buying some satellites from them). But, as a non-profit and with openly licensed data, we can get free open storage via AWS Open Data, Microsoft Planetary Computer, or Google Cloud (pending agreements), which also helps with distribution. Compute for product processing would also be discounted. Ground stations/transmission are still the expensive bit, but excited about Northwoods coming online, and a few other options out there that would at least make it less expensive.

appreciate the thoughts!

[–]NilsTillander 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I'm (as you might have understood by now) a bit skeptical, but if you guys succeed, I'd be super happy 😊

Not having the ability to get the data I want because of cost/availability has plagued my work for a decade 😵

[–]Common_Space_world[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Skeptics are super useful for us right now! And I dont mean that passively, it's a complex industry, and we're not trying to do something that is easy... so, I'm mostly worried about missing something that would make this less possible... to me, you hit the hard points, funding ongoing operations and sustainability of the organization. Appreciate you taking the time to comment, and I hope that I'm able to provide you with some data in the future!

[–]orion726 0 points1 point  (3 children)

This sounds great! I've only worked in RS in the commercial sector so I don't think my survey feedback would be too helpful but wanted to say I fully support the initiative.

Curious about a few things. Would the data only be free for specific use cases? Or would there be some sort of licensing where, e.g., NGOs get free access?

How do you imagine the funding being sustained post-launch? Data housing and processing can get very expensive and it would be awful if funding ran out while the satellite is still at FOC.

[–]Common_Space_world[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

The goal is to provide open data and make the data free for use under a Creative Commons license. We are looking to build the satellites using philanthropic money, and then pay for the operations using a consortium of non-profits. So, supporting NGOs would basically be the ones paying for ongoing operations, but we are targeting large organizations that are already spending on commercial imagery, so the goal is to reduce their overall costs and provide a more accessible and open service. A very similar model to the Earth Fire Alliance, with the launch of the FireSat Constellation.

We are also looking to partner with commercial operators to access their unused capacity and free some of their stranded assets. The goal is to build a virtual constellation to work alongside the physical constellation, so that we can provide access to multiple phenomenologies, without necessarily launching multiple satellite constellations (but we will if we have to).

very aware of the costs of ongoing operations - as a non-profit and open data provider, we are working on partnerships to provide that data out in a way that covers our costs. Ground station costs and downlinking the data are definitely the highest costs, and we're looking into ways to reduce that cost, but overall cost to build, launch, and operate has come down significantly in the last few years.

Appreciate the support!

[–]orion726 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thanks for the reply. Yeah some commercial partnerships could go a long way. Especially if you're looking to combine LWIR + UVIS.

I'll be following y'all on LinkedIn and rooting for your success!

[–]Common_Space_world[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

appreciate it... lots of room for improvement! trying to make something happen!