I really liked the mute aunt, amazingly executed character who is both a badass and the source of some really funny moments ("breakfast is the most important meal of the day.")
I love Ehasz's statement. I'm really fucking sick of people reacting to any diversity in media as "pandering" or an "agenda." My identities don't matter here but I really like and appreciate the chance to NOT be able to put myself in a character's shoes. I WANT to see more perspectives that don't match mine in storytelling. If that makes me part of the progressive agenda, so be it
Some people(after viewing the first 3 episodes) were saying the show was somehow not fucking diverse enough for them like WTF its 3 episodes in and tons of races have been shown but somehow that wasnt enough for them?
People call it pandering because that is usually what it is. A character who’s only real purpose seems to be to tick a checkbox. In everyday life your sexuality usually won’t come up. Yet characters seem to fit it into every interaction.
That said they specifically talked about characters who’s diversity hasn’t been shown yet. They seem to realize that those specific traits that make you a minority can exist without being your only defining characteristics.
Diversity != good. However it also doesn’t equal bad. It’s just most have been rather poor and shoehorned in.
Okay, now I just need Gren to free Runaan from the coin and marry him.
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There’s a theory going around that Runaan is already in a relationship. Credits for episode 1 have a sketch of a male elf making the necklace Runaan used for his tree spell, and then episode 8 or 9 has a sketch of that same elf standing over a pool, tears in his eyes, as a lotus with a weird thing in the center sinks into the water.
I would 100% be ok with them both escaping and gaining a kind of brotherly relationship while trying to find the boys and rayla and seeing if anything became of it.
Ehasz is honestly the only person who talks about diversity in his storytelling that doesn’t scare me away from it. The last thing I want is to have another marvel comics scenario.
That said the likely hood of Ehasz ever making characters just bland virtue signalling misrepresentations of different groups are at well, 0%.
He might be capable but he’s not making this alone. There still might be some virtue signalling although I hope not. I also kinda which this wasn’t really even a topic. Let that characters speak for themselves. We’ve gotten 9 episodes so far from what could hopefully be a very long story.
I'm hoping they write it in a lot like Shiro from Voltron. While his sexuality was a core part of his character, it simply never came up prior to the most recent season. Characters with diversity shit don't have to shout it the moment they come on screen. Obviously, characters like Aunt Amaya are going to be more obvious -- it's the nature of a disability.
I mean, the entire first season is over, and the only hint of romance so far has been Callum's crush on Claudia. So I think we're safe there.
Though it does bother me how diverse characters are always perceived as "shouting their diversity" whenever it does finally come up in the show. Like, Callum acting like a doof in front of Claudia: normal. If Callum had been falling over himself (for other reasons) while practicing with Soren, would that have been shouting? If Callum and Ezran had been step-siblings with their dads being married, would it have been shouting every time someone casually mentioned him? Even though their mom has been talked about like 30 times already?
See I actually found Callum's doofing around to be 'shouting' as you put it, and I would have preferred it be subtler. S, to answer your question, yes, it would have been shouting to some.
I'm fine with diversity. In fact diversity done right can build and make really interesting characters. Amaya is a prime example of a good character done right. She plays up the role of her disability as its not holding her back if anything her makes even more stoic. Her character, much like Toph isn't made from her disability, but the work around with that disability. There's more to them than just "I'm deaf" or "I'm blind." But its also important to note that in accordance with the setting they're both presented in, they had advantageous origins. A typical feudal/medieval peasant family would have killed or abandoned their child with a disability. Ava's story comes to mind. The fact that Ellis' family couldn't afford to take care of her reaffirms the fact that times are still hard for people. Amaya's origins plays up to her character. It feels natural, not forced.
The thing that I'm concerned with, is the pandering problem. We've seen this happen in other forms of media and entertainment such as the Legend of Korra. Where diversity takes priority over the quality of the story. Where things are diverse for the sake of being diverse but overall add nothing to the relation of the story. By doing things like this, it become disingenuous to the characters you've built, the groups you're trying to represent, and the story you're trying to tell. It be like someone trying to say they support 'x' group just for the popular vote, and actually do nothing with it. This is what should be worrying. Nothing should feel shoehorned or forced in, everything should come naturally and fit together masterfully. No one should ever sacrifice anything over the quality of the story you're telling. So far everything has been fine (for the most part), I just don't want Ehasz to get blind-sighted on trying to fit every single group in there and it not making any sense to the audience. Food for thought.
Edit: Downvotes really? I'm not saying diversity is something to be avoided at all. I'm saying there needs to be well thought out balance between the two. This isn't an anti-diversity message. This is more so just a message to keep the writing structure at its best while best representing diverse groups.
A lack of diversity would be pandering in a way that's more disingenuous and even less reflective of reality. I think that it's great that the show is striving for diversity. I agree that there's a balance to be met, and misrepresentation has its own problems. But I think that the show runners have shown to have their hearts in the right place.
One thing to keep in mind is that the people that are going to have opinions on the level of diversity in this show aren't going to be the most to benefit from it. It's the kids growing up watching this show who have 0 opinions on diversity that will truly benefit. Coming from someone who grew up watching tv with characters that looked nothing like me, or the few characters that did, were caricatures of my race and made me ashamed at times to identify with my own culture, I'm much more hopeful and optimistic about the fact that diverse representation is becoming a standard.
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I agree with this whole-heartedly. In fact this is what I was trying to say. Having no diversity makes an entire show completely bland and unoriginal. The entire point of the post I was making is to show there needs to be a cautious balance between the two. One slip up can easily break a series. My comment isnt about how we should avoid diversity, but handle it with care. Diverse representation is a great thing if done right.
I can see this. Sometimes people will introduce say, a homosexual character, and then that becomes their defining trait. Not only can that sidetrack a story, but it's a disservice to the character and community in general. After all, they're people first and (insert identity here) second. I think representation is best when that sort of thing isn't the focus. It's just another one of many normal aspects of that character that doesn't have to be brought attention to. After all, that type of thing just being seen as normal/natural like everything else is more reassuring then if it always has to be treated like a potential problem by somebody. That's not to say that there isn't a place for stories that deal with identity struggles, but they work best in stories that are built around and focus on those types of themes. Or they're just one of many things going on.
The reason that Korra x Asami was received relatively poorly was the complaint that their romance seemed to come out of left field. There wasn't much buildup to it, as it was never obvious that the two were romantically interested in each other. While you may think that Korra and Asami's abrupt relationship is the result of "pandering" to LGBTQ viewers, I have a different take.
Although I may of course be wrong, I believe Korrasami's lack of buildup was chiefly because explicit LGBTQ relationships were not widely accepted in children's TV shows at the time. Therefore, the creators / showrunners / network were uncomfortable showing explicit examples of LGBTQ representation across multiple episodes. And yet, they still wanted to include their vision for Korra's character in the end, which they may have felt more empowered to do since any subsequent backlash would no longer affect the show. In a way, LOK's heart was in the right place: the goal was to give young LGBTQ viewers the feeling of finally seeing themselves as a character--a main character--in their favorite TV show (if the goal were to pander, why only reveal Korrasami at the end of the series, when viewership is far less important?). However, because of the show's unwillingness to buck societal pressures earlier in the season, their attempt came off as abrupt, lackluster, and disingenuous.
So to me, LOK's weak ending was not a result of pandering to LGBTQ viewers. Instead, it was a result of the show pandering to the portion of society that was uncomfortable seeing LGBTQ representation on TV. It said, "Don't worry. We know you don't like this representation, so we'll compartmentalize it into a few ambiguous seconds at the very end. If you squint hard enough, you can pretend it never even happened."
---
In the four years since LOK, society has made fairly rapid progress in terms of accepting LGBTQ characters in children's TV shows. Correspondingly, showrunners have become bolder and more explicit in their depictions of LGBTQ characters. That's why many are so optimistic about Ehasz's statement on diversity. They're hopeful that The Dragon Prince can become the show they've been waiting for: a show with diverse characters who can express their diversity at any time, not just in the series finale.
And that's why the "You can have diversity, but be careful to do it right!" sentiment seems to be rubbing people the wrong way. For LOK, it was never about being careful. It was about being brave enough to make the statement that, yes, this character is gay. While she is not defined by her sexuality, yes, her sexuality does influence her life and her actions. With LOK, that statement was never made clearly. Ehasz's tweet gives one hope that The Dragon Prince will say it loud and clear.
Comments Section
I really liked the mute aunt, amazingly executed character who is both a badass and the source of some really funny moments ("breakfast is the most important meal of the day.")
Grens actor was gave such a perfect execution of that line
I love Ehasz's statement. I'm really fucking sick of people reacting to any diversity in media as "pandering" or an "agenda." My identities don't matter here but I really like and appreciate the chance to NOT be able to put myself in a character's shoes. I WANT to see more perspectives that don't match mine in storytelling. If that makes me part of the progressive agenda, so be it
Some people(after viewing the first 3 episodes) were saying the show was somehow not fucking diverse enough for them like WTF its 3 episodes in and tons of races have been shown but somehow that wasnt enough for them?
Those people will never be happy.
People call it pandering because that is usually what it is. A character who’s only real purpose seems to be to tick a checkbox. In everyday life your sexuality usually won’t come up. Yet characters seem to fit it into every interaction.
That said they specifically talked about characters who’s diversity hasn’t been shown yet. They seem to realize that those specific traits that make you a minority can exist without being your only defining characteristics.
Diversity != good. However it also doesn’t equal bad. It’s just most have been rather poor and shoehorned in.
Okay, now I just need Gren to free Runaan from the coin and marry him.
There’s a theory going around that Runaan is already in a relationship. Credits for episode 1 have a sketch of a male elf making the necklace Runaan used for his tree spell, and then episode 8 or 9 has a sketch of that same elf standing over a pool, tears in his eyes, as a lotus with a weird thing in the center sinks into the water.
I would 100% be ok with them both escaping and gaining a kind of brotherly relationship while trying to find the boys and rayla and seeing if anything became of it.
This is fantastic. Reminds me of the way the Mcelroys handled diversity in The Adventure Zone.
Ehasz is honestly the only person who talks about diversity in his storytelling that doesn’t scare me away from it. The last thing I want is to have another marvel comics scenario.
That said the likely hood of Ehasz ever making characters just bland virtue signalling misrepresentations of different groups are at well, 0%.
He might be capable but he’s not making this alone. There still might be some virtue signalling although I hope not. I also kinda which this wasn’t really even a topic. Let that characters speak for themselves. We’ve gotten 9 episodes so far from what could hopefully be a very long story.
I'm hoping they write it in a lot like Shiro from Voltron. While his sexuality was a core part of his character, it simply never came up prior to the most recent season. Characters with diversity shit don't have to shout it the moment they come on screen. Obviously, characters like Aunt Amaya are going to be more obvious -- it's the nature of a disability.
I mean, the entire first season is over, and the only hint of romance so far has been Callum's crush on Claudia. So I think we're safe there.
Though it does bother me how diverse characters are always perceived as "shouting their diversity" whenever it does finally come up in the show. Like, Callum acting like a doof in front of Claudia: normal. If Callum had been falling over himself (for other reasons) while practicing with Soren, would that have been shouting? If Callum and Ezran had been step-siblings with their dads being married, would it have been shouting every time someone casually mentioned him? Even though their mom has been talked about like 30 times already?
See I actually found Callum's doofing around to be 'shouting' as you put it, and I would have preferred it be subtler. S, to answer your question, yes, it would have been shouting to some.
LGBTQ ya say? prays Rayla likes girls
I'm fine with diversity. In fact diversity done right can build and make really interesting characters. Amaya is a prime example of a good character done right. She plays up the role of her disability as its not holding her back if anything her makes even more stoic. Her character, much like Toph isn't made from her disability, but the work around with that disability. There's more to them than just "I'm deaf" or "I'm blind." But its also important to note that in accordance with the setting they're both presented in, they had advantageous origins. A typical feudal/medieval peasant family would have killed or abandoned their child with a disability. Ava's story comes to mind. The fact that Ellis' family couldn't afford to take care of her reaffirms the fact that times are still hard for people. Amaya's origins plays up to her character. It feels natural, not forced.
The thing that I'm concerned with, is the pandering problem. We've seen this happen in other forms of media and entertainment such as the Legend of Korra. Where diversity takes priority over the quality of the story. Where things are diverse for the sake of being diverse but overall add nothing to the relation of the story. By doing things like this, it become disingenuous to the characters you've built, the groups you're trying to represent, and the story you're trying to tell. It be like someone trying to say they support 'x' group just for the popular vote, and actually do nothing with it. This is what should be worrying. Nothing should feel shoehorned or forced in, everything should come naturally and fit together masterfully. No one should ever sacrifice anything over the quality of the story you're telling. So far everything has been fine (for the most part), I just don't want Ehasz to get blind-sighted on trying to fit every single group in there and it not making any sense to the audience. Food for thought.
Edit: Downvotes really? I'm not saying diversity is something to be avoided at all. I'm saying there needs to be well thought out balance between the two. This isn't an anti-diversity message. This is more so just a message to keep the writing structure at its best while best representing diverse groups.
A lack of diversity would be pandering in a way that's more disingenuous and even less reflective of reality. I think that it's great that the show is striving for diversity. I agree that there's a balance to be met, and misrepresentation has its own problems. But I think that the show runners have shown to have their hearts in the right place.
One thing to keep in mind is that the people that are going to have opinions on the level of diversity in this show aren't going to be the most to benefit from it. It's the kids growing up watching this show who have 0 opinions on diversity that will truly benefit. Coming from someone who grew up watching tv with characters that looked nothing like me, or the few characters that did, were caricatures of my race and made me ashamed at times to identify with my own culture, I'm much more hopeful and optimistic about the fact that diverse representation is becoming a standard.
I agree with this whole-heartedly. In fact this is what I was trying to say. Having no diversity makes an entire show completely bland and unoriginal. The entire point of the post I was making is to show there needs to be a cautious balance between the two. One slip up can easily break a series. My comment isnt about how we should avoid diversity, but handle it with care. Diverse representation is a great thing if done right.
I can see this. Sometimes people will introduce say, a homosexual character, and then that becomes their defining trait. Not only can that sidetrack a story, but it's a disservice to the character and community in general. After all, they're people first and (insert identity here) second. I think representation is best when that sort of thing isn't the focus. It's just another one of many normal aspects of that character that doesn't have to be brought attention to. After all, that type of thing just being seen as normal/natural like everything else is more reassuring then if it always has to be treated like a potential problem by somebody. That's not to say that there isn't a place for stories that deal with identity struggles, but they work best in stories that are built around and focus on those types of themes. Or they're just one of many things going on.
Korra really didn't do any pandering. The reason people started shipping Korra and Asami is because they were building it up for like 2 seasons.
The reason that Korra x Asami was received relatively poorly was the complaint that their romance seemed to come out of left field. There wasn't much buildup to it, as it was never obvious that the two were romantically interested in each other. While you may think that Korra and Asami's abrupt relationship is the result of "pandering" to LGBTQ viewers, I have a different take.
Although I may of course be wrong, I believe Korrasami's lack of buildup was chiefly because explicit LGBTQ relationships were not widely accepted in children's TV shows at the time. Therefore, the creators / showrunners / network were uncomfortable showing explicit examples of LGBTQ representation across multiple episodes. And yet, they still wanted to include their vision for Korra's character in the end, which they may have felt more empowered to do since any subsequent backlash would no longer affect the show. In a way, LOK's heart was in the right place: the goal was to give young LGBTQ viewers the feeling of finally seeing themselves as a character--a main character--in their favorite TV show (if the goal were to pander, why only reveal Korrasami at the end of the series, when viewership is far less important?). However, because of the show's unwillingness to buck societal pressures earlier in the season, their attempt came off as abrupt, lackluster, and disingenuous.
So to me, LOK's weak ending was not a result of pandering to LGBTQ viewers. Instead, it was a result of the show pandering to the portion of society that was uncomfortable seeing LGBTQ representation on TV. It said, "Don't worry. We know you don't like this representation, so we'll compartmentalize it into a few ambiguous seconds at the very end. If you squint hard enough, you can pretend it never even happened."
---
In the four years since LOK, society has made fairly rapid progress in terms of accepting LGBTQ characters in children's TV shows. Correspondingly, showrunners have become bolder and more explicit in their depictions of LGBTQ characters. That's why many are so optimistic about Ehasz's statement on diversity. They're hopeful that The Dragon Prince can become the show they've been waiting for: a show with diverse characters who can express their diversity at any time, not just in the series finale.
And that's why the "You can have diversity, but be careful to do it right!" sentiment seems to be rubbing people the wrong way. For LOK, it was never about being careful. It was about being brave enough to make the statement that, yes, this character is gay. While she is not defined by her sexuality, yes, her sexuality does influence her life and her actions. With LOK, that statement was never made clearly. Ehasz's tweet gives one hope that The Dragon Prince will say it loud and clear.
So far with the deaf character it’s going incredibly well, hopefully there isn’t anything that feels forced down the line.
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