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AG's avatar
Jul 14Edited

Cool article. I'm not affiliated with Manifest, but I am a fan and did attend. I have some minor nitpicks:

Corrections:

* This is an incorrect definition of annealing (though possibly the fault of the security engineer; if so, classic). What you are describing is called strain hardening, and also the mechanism by which it works is by creating *more* defects, not less.

Probably wrong:

* If there were such a category, Robin Hanson probably counts as one of the founding fathers of rationalism, but I don't think he would be a consensus pick for *the* founding father.

* It seems to me very unlikely that Ketamine is the drug of choice for rationalists: in my opinion this is pretty clearly vyvanse (if prescription), retatrutide (if pharmaceutical), or psilocybin (if recreational).

* In my opinion, the anti-institutional nature of Manifest is not about being against credentialism and experts, but rather about being pro-individual, so the idea that it would attempt to supplant Davos is absurd (Also, didn't you ask about this at the Manifest Q&A session? But for some reason you didn't include the response).

Ideological disagreements:

* The idea that prediction market manipulation can lead to bad effects on the world is known, and there are more nuanced defenses than merely the idea that more information is always good in and of itself. For example, Ben Shindel has a piece defending war markets: https://thebsdetector.substack.com/p/in-tenuous-defense-of-war-markets

* The sex stuff is a natural consequence of having a imbalanced gender ratio composed primarily of male nerds who are also high openness. The number of such events is, if anything, rather lower than would be normally expected for such a demographic. In any case, while I don't think the RLHGF is a a very useful format, I think it's cool that she and her participants are trying it out.

Max Parness's avatar

The real issue for the Manifest-er isn’t the futility of trying to optimize every facet of life. It’s that even on their own terms of “gaming” life through market logic, they repeatedly fail to produce the outcomes they claim to be optimizing for. Take the opening anecdote: Aella never once interrogates why her exercises systematically result in the female participant rejecting the male volunteer. She earnestly believes she is helping people get together, yet, to any normal observer, the structure of the exercise seems comically engineered for failure and humiliation. The setup is that a socially anxious man is to become more desirable by (a) being directed like a marionette by a third party, (b) while standing on a stage in front of sixty strangers, (c) being told to “just be natural,” and (d) without ever asking the woman whether being touched in this way would make her comfortable.

Or look at Hanson’s futarchy. It takes a real insight (powerful wisdom‑of‑crowds dynamics that undergird forecasting) and inappropriately extrapolates it into a policy mechanism. Who says that prescriptions, like predictions, obey the WoC? And do the participants at Manifest not see the distorting feedback loops they’re generating that run roughshod over the requirement of INDEPENDENCE for WoC? For example, when (a) the people or entities being bet on are hyper-aware of the market (the couple at the end) or (b) the betters can directly influence outcomes (startups deemed promising by the market get more funding --- thus becoming more likely to succeed)?

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