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Apple and Google are gradually expanding their use of hardware-based attestation. They're convincing a growing number of services to adopt it. Google's Play Integrity API and Apple's App Attest API are very similar. Apple brought it to the web via Privacy Pass, which Google intends on doing too.
Google's Play Integrity API requires hardware attestation for the strong integrity level and is gradually phasing in requiring it for the more commonly used device integrity level. Apple already has it as a requirement. Over the long term, this will increasingly lock out hardware and OS competition.
The purpose of these systems is disallowing people from using hardware and software not approved by Apple or Google. This is wrongly presented as being a security feature. Banks and government services are the main ones adopting it but Apple and Google are encouraging every service to use it.
Apple's Privacy Pass brought hardware attestation to the web to help with passing captchas on their own hardware. Many people saw that as harmless since few sites would be willing to lock out non-Apple-hardware users. Apple and Google are both likely to bring broader hardware attestation to the web.
Google's reCAPTCHA is planning an approach where they use Privacy Pass on Apple hardware, their own approach on Google Mobile Services Android devices and a QR code scanning system to require an iOS or Google certified Android device for Windows and other systems:
Banking and government services increasingly require using a mobile app where they can use attestation to force using an Apple or Google approved device and OS. Apple's privacy pass, Google's 'cancelled' Web Environment Integrity and now reCAPTCHA Mobile Verification are bringing this to the web.
Current media coverage for reCAPTCHA Mobile Verification misunderstands it and the impact of it. They're bringing a hardware attestation requirement to Windows, desktop Linux, OpenBSD, etc. by requiring a QR scan from a certified smartphone to pass reCAPTCHA in some cases. They could expand it more.
Control over reCAPTCHA puts Google in a position where they can require having either iOS or a certified Android device to use an enormous amount of the web. Google defines certification requirements for Android which includes forcing bundling Google Chrome, etc. It's enormously anti-competitive.
Google's Play Integrity API bans using GrapheneOS despite it being far more secure than anything they permit. It also bans using any other alternative. This isn't somehow specific to an AOSP-based OS. You can't avoid this by using a mobile OS based on FreeBSD instead. You'll just be more locked out.
Google's Play Integrity API permits devices with no security patches for 10 years. The device integrity level can be bypassed via spoofing but they can detect it quite well and block it once it starts being done at scale. The strong integrity level requires leaked keys from TEEs/SEs to bypass it.
Play Integrity API is highly insecure and it isn't particularly hard to temporarily bypass it. There are frameworks for spoofing the software checks and leaked keys for bypassing hardware attestation can be purchased. However, bypasses are getting harder and are becoming increasingly short lived.
It doesn't provide a useful security feature, but it does lock out competition very well. Services requiring Apple App Attest or Google Play Integrity are primarily helping to lock in Apple and Google having a duopoly for mobile devices. Play Integrity is more relevant due to AOSP being open source.
Governments are increasingly mandating using Apple's App Attest and Google's Play Integrity for not only their own services but also commercial services. The EU is leading the charge of making these requirements for digital payments, ID, age verification, etc. Many EU government apps require them.
Instead of governments stopping Apple and Google from engaging in egregiously anti-competitive behavior, they're directly participating in locking out competition via their own services. Requiring people to have an Apple device or Google-certified Android device is anti-competition, not security.
reCAPTCHA Mobile Verification will currently work with sandboxed Google Play on GrapheneOS but it clearly exists to provide a way for them to start using hardware attestation on systems without it. People without an iOS or Android device will be locked out when this is required even without that.
This isn't about security or any missing functionality. GrapheneOS can be verified via hardware attestation. Google bans using GrapheneOS for Play Integrity because we don't license Google Mobile Services and conform to anti-competitive rules already found to be illegal in South Korea and elsewhere.
Services shouldn't ban people from using arbitrary hardware and operating systems in the first place. Google's security excuse is clearly bogus when they permit devices with no patches for 10 years but not a much more secure OS. It's for enforcing their monopolies via GMS licensing, that's all.
Unified Attestation is another anti-competitive system being pushed by multiple European companies. It will similarly lock people out from using arbitrary hardware and software. That's not a solution and is far worse than Android's much more open hardware attestation API.
Android provides a standard hardware attestation system with support for alternate operating systems via allowing their verified boot key fingerprints. It's mainly used with Google's root of trust and remote key provisioning service but the API supports alternative roots of trust.
Volla's Unified Attestation is fully built on Android's hardware attestation API. It solely exists to create a centralized authority and service determining what's allowed under their control.
Android's hardware attestation shouldn't be used to lock out users not using specific hardware or OSes. However, the fact that it permits arbitrary roots of trust and OSes at least allows services to permit more. Google could use it to permit GrapheneOS for Play Integrity if that was about security.
@GrapheneOS please dumb it down for me wdym by this exactly or what's the point
@MAlBarram Read the rest of the thread once it's posted.
@7cd4a72311bad46117e0f692dddc5f31a543b47ff4265b028f8d820ac808ab3c @MAlBarram We have a partnership with Motorola Mobility (Lenovo) and are working with them towards their 2027 devices providing all of our requirements and providing official GrapheneOS support. We're actively working with them on getting the requirements implemented and GrapheneOS ported to their devices. It has nothing to do with the thread we posted though since it's not going to help with any of this.
@7cd4a72311bad46117e0f692dddc5f31a543b47ff4265b028f8d820ac808ab3c @MAlBarram Pixels aren't somehow dead and none of what we posted is in any way specific to Pixels, Android devices or operating systems based on the Android Open Source Project.
You should read the thread we posted which is about them bringing the Play Integrity API to the web including for desktops by requiring having a phone certified by it or an iOS device in order to pass checks on the web and desktops too.
@7cd4a72311bad46117e0f692dddc5f31a543b47ff4265b028f8d820ac808ab3c @MAlBarram This doesn't impact GrapheneOS more than it impacts Windows, desktop Linux, FreeBSD, etc. You should read what we wrote in the thread. Whether you use a FreeBSD device or a GrapheneOS device, needing to have an unmodified iOS or Google Mobile Services Android device to pass checks for accessing banking and government services or now to pass certain reCAPTCHA checks is still going to be an issue.
It's the goal.
For example, all those new laws for age verification are to prevent you from using an operating system or ROM that cannot be minored or controlled. Blocking reCAPTCHA on a non-approved, non-certified government and corporate sanctioned devices is just 1 piece of the big picture.
For example, the USA has made any new router not made in the USA illegal to import or sell. They can apply for an exception if they agree to include their new control chip or firmware.
Motorola has a security contract with the USA.
They will, depending on need, release a device with GrapheneOS — or delay it — and work closely with you to identify the methods and vulnerabilities you discover, as well as how you implement features to overcome the planned “new normal,” so that, behind the scenes, they can undermine and circumvent your work in the future. The investment — which includes you — is intended to strengthen relations and acquire additional contracts. 
@Linux @GrapheneOS Do you have a reference for that? You might be mixing up Motorola Mobility with Motorola Solutions, which are two separate companies.
I am the source.
Both Motorola Mobility with Motorola Solutions CAGE Code: 01113, 6H7Z2, 78205, and 7H229 (NCAGE).
If you’re looking for an actual document that says, “Yes, we’re trying to screw over the American people,” a written confession in a convenient PDF file, you won’t find one. Ever.
@Linux Motorola Mobility is a subsidiary of Lenovo and definitely doesn't have the relationship you're describing with the US government. Motorola was split up in 2011 and Motorola Mobility was acquired by Lneovo in 2014. You're confusing entirely different companies together, not that it would make sense regardless since GrapheneOS is open source. They don't need to do anything special to see what we're doing.
@GrapheneOS Google has the entirety of its commercial success thanks to the openness and interoperability of the #WWW. To try an captcha it to build a walled garden is, frankly speaking, an act of disrespect for @timbl and the entire web community.
Microsoft has tried it. Apple has tried it as well. Both have finally had the insight that working with the community is much more rewarding and profitable than working against it.
Let's work toward Google having that same revelation as well.
(Sorry for the pun, couldn't resist)
@GrapheneOS i complained on many official service they ignore it, the ombudsman was called and they seem to ignore it too.
they all aswer the bullshit that you are labelled insecure by official tool, because google tool automatically mark non licensed OS as insecure regardless of their actual security.
@GrapheneOS
So true! One little thing: This would also be bad if it weren't a bogus excuse. Because Remote Attestation in a device for the general public in itself is evil, and it will always be abused. The whole purpose of Remote Attestation is to enable a service to ban people from using arbitrary hardware and OSes. And in extension, to ban people from using arbitrary client apps for those services.
@thomas Using attestation doesn't imply allowing only a specific set of hardware and operating systems. That's not at all implied and isn't even possible for an implementation only providing pinning-based verification rather than root-based verification.
@GrapheneOS @thomas I’m going back to bed
@GrapheneOS if it was about security this system would be more close to Https certificate (not identique of course for obvious techical reason) than what google make now (with themselve as sole capable certificate controler).
@GrapheneOS You're just doing it wrong. Using current mobile hardware and android as base is just wrong approach. Happy to talk about this f2f.
It is a proof that governments, banks and companies are one and the same.
@GrapheneOS It is not. Nothing is about security, everything is about device lockdown so surveillance becomes unescapable. This is the ultimate goal of the system. It is quite evident on all fronts. Mobile, desktop, consumer electronics, vehicles etc. Only servers seem to get a lighter treatment because they are used by corporations.
@GrapheneOS does this mean that we gonna have to install sandboxed google play
@GrapheneOS The Brazilian government app "gov.br" requires Play Integrity too. There's no fallback, no alternative verification method.
I've sent complaints to the Brazilian entities suggested in the "Keep Android Open" website, but they either reply with a template message or completely ignore it.
Google is pretty much our Evil Corp, but where is fsociety? 
@GrapheneOS I've used Magisk and Play Integrity Fix/Fork before. While it works, it requires a rooted device. The PIF module has to update very often to keep working, and it would have root privileges to your phone...
@GrapheneOS This is a major issue. Even to make appointments in DE at local Government Offices one has to jump through ID processes that in my case only work via my wife's iPhone.... it should be constitutionally illegal. It is a denial of right.
@GrapheneOS the irony that it's fine to use a desktop for the same task as long as you use SMS 2FA is also scorching
@GrapheneOS on our way to "privatized care, " information and resources distributed by government subsidized corps(e)
@GrapheneOS do not know almost anyone else who is making this exact point that "security" is a euphemism for "national security" and is actively opposed to privacy or auditability. certainly not user security. @dwaynemonroe has identified the extreme closeness of monopolistic and fascistic hierarchical unaccountable and potentially even illegal control
@GrapheneOS @dwaynemonroe pypi disabled pgp signing (certified donald stufft and william woodruff tag team production. woodruff whined about how he couldn't surveil some keypairs and claimed this made them "useless")
anyway if you want the cryptographic checkmark from pypi they need you to give microsoft or google a few minutes alone with your code before any user can see it. not "reproducible" but reprobuilds only bullies open source code not corps. would love the evangelism strike force to fight corporate DRM and not module signing in the kernel
it is very possible to reproducibly diff a build process with module signing, diffoscope just completely sucks
[yes i'm likely gonna fork it]
thanks for listening!
@hipsterelectron @GrapheneOS @dwaynemonroe The book to throw at people who can't grasp the significance is Edwin Black „IBM and the Holocaust” and for what the target will be in the USA, to which I'll hopefully never be repatriated, witness e.g. Marsha Blackburn declaring that the purpose of KOSA is to „eradicate the transgender.” I figured out that no one was going to deal with the issue in good faith and fled the country before the inauguration, and was already vindicated at the inauguration itself.
And "national security" is in turn a euphemism for "rulers' security".
@GrapheneOS care to comment @EUCommission @hpod16
i increasily grew annoyed with the EU a** licking of Google and Apple...
@GrapheneOS Sovereignty
@GrapheneOS I side loaded the EU's sample age verification app - which seems to work on my GrapheneOS phone. Is there a way to know if it is only working because I also have the PlayStore installed?
@GrapheneOS yes, it is hugely problematic.
@GrapheneOS We are definitely moving towards a two device scenario. One everyday phone with GrapheneOS hopefully and one government device most of the time powered off...
True. Some banking apps work on my oldest Pixel 2 with latest OS patch over 10 years old but not on the latest secure GOS. That's fkin hilarious 
@GrapheneOS it seems we can't even avoid it by avoiding smartphones altogether. I'm really concerned that for people who eg only have access to the internet through a library/school/borrowed computer, they'll be banned from most of the web for the crime of not being able to afford a smartphone
@GrapheneOS At this time the NHS app in the UK has a 'use Chrome (yes/no)' prompt that pops up each time i'm logging in. I've written to the developers to point out how egregious this is.