The Sophistry behind not Paying for Sex: 1
Let me start by defining sophistry.
Sophistry is a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of reasoning, primarily used to deceive someone.
Ok, so how does that relate to having sex with women? The answer lies in the concept of ‘not paying for it’. While I am all for the concept of ‘not paying for it’, depending on ‘unpaid’ sex is a bad idea for a number of reasons.
In a previous era, women had no choice but to put out to a provider guy. Sure.. there were pussy-whipped husbands but at least they got pussy, even if it was of the questionable type. Fast forward to our age and that is no longer true, as ‘independent’ women with largely useless jobs no longer need a man to support them.
The result is that most women are now free to chase a few men, leaving the rest on their own. The effects of such attitudes, and reactions to then, on the social contract will be profound.. to say the least. However the net result is that most men now get ‘unpaid’ pussy on very unfavorable terms.
Concepts like ‘game’, ‘mgtow’ and ‘mra’ are largely reactions to this unprecedented and one-sided change in the social contract. For the purpose of this post, I am going to attack the concept of ‘not paying for sex’.
Many blogs about ‘game’ and related stuff repeatedly stress that they ‘unpaid sex’ is always better, more fulfilling and more socially desirable than ‘paid sex’. However, even a partial analysis of this statement reveals the underlying flaws of the preposition.
I could take the easy route and say “you pay for it one way or the other”, which is true. However, I will take another, less common, line of attack.
There are many blogs, books and forums about ‘game’, and while the methods/programs are different there is one underlying similarity in their world view.
Blame the guy!
You see women, feminists and PUAs have one attitude in common- it is the guys fault that he is not getting what he wants, or any. It is always your fault that you are not ‘alpha’ enough, too bitter, too angry, not stylish, not cool, not (insert excuse).. But all of these reasons are subjective, and you can never make any significant percentage of people happy by doing anything.
These scumbags are trying to convince you that every failure (judged on subjective criteria) is your own fault. The funny thing is that most of YOU are stupid enough to accept that explanation.
What is the real difference between women who tells you that model level women are out of your league and a PUA who tells you the same, albeit worded to make it sound more reasonable. If you are willing to pay for sex, anyone of you could be hammering a model level woman (an HB8 or 9) at a place and time of your choice. Sure.. she will only hang around for a few minutes after the time is over, but does it matter? Does cumming inside her 2-3 times in that hour mean nothing?
What do you need women for, anyway?
Could it be housekeeping? You can employ someone to do that. Could it be for cooking? Between appliances, packaged food and inexpensive restaurants.. is that really an issue any more? Could it be to show others you are not gay? Nobody cares, nowadays. Maybe it is to present yourself as a family man to get a promotion in your company? Those days are long gone. Maybe it is for human company? Ever heard of IMing, facebook, laptops, smartphones? Maybe it is for physical company? Get a dog.
Maybe it is for kids? hahaha, best of luck! Maybe it is for ensuring your genetic immortality through kids? Will you be around to see it? Maybe your kids will support you when you are old? Sure.. look around you. Maybe you want a confidant, life-partner, human companion? Good luck finding that..
So what is the one thing you really require women for?
Great sex, and a bit of cuddling/human contact afterwards.
Once you realize this somewhat unpleasant truth, it will set you free. Now ask yourself, what is the easiest and most accessible path for obtaining reliable, good sex with an attractive woman of your choice on your terms.
If you can get 8 and 9s on good terms, with or without ‘game’.. more power to you. But I suspect that even most diligent and resourceful practitioners of ‘game’ cannot obtain what they want, when they want and on their terms.
But if your real objective is great sex with a hot woman on your terms, why take the more laborious route?
It is not as if women will stick to you, not break up and not cheat on you.. ‘game’ or no game. So why get an inferior and costlier package when you could get the better one? Sure.. you cannot impress other men and women with your ‘unpaid’ conquests, but does it matter? Which one of these people you wish to impress would give you a 20$ bill if you were starving? very few.. So why does their approval matter? Let them gloat over getting crappy ‘unpaid’ sex on shitty terms.
You live only once, so live for yourself.
Or you could always pander to the wishes, demands and requests of others. Who knows, you might actually find happiness in it.. I have heard about men who pay to have their balls tortured by dominas while simultaneously being spit upon. They seem to like it..
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good points based on observation. hard to dispute most of these, to be honest.
i think for some guys though, eventually it is the human company OTHER than whilst having sex, to see a movie, grocery shopping. we as humans are social animals. maybe i was programmed to think that, having heard it in biology class. hmm.
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How do you intend enjoy this company between waiting for her next shit test, trying to domineer her and looking out for signs of flakiness/ disinterest? Seriously, you cannot enjoy the company of an adversary.. yes that is right- ‘adversary’. Because that is what your ‘unpaid’ relationship is really like..
Never paid for sex. Can’t say one way or the other.
I have the personal revulsion for doing this acquired from my culture.
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Your choice..
It is an expensive hobby. $300/hr., 4 times per month, 1200 x 12.
That’s easily a vacation, new clothes, books, etc.
You’d say that’s the point, but then no sex, paid or unpaid, is like a monk.
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So you prefer to spend that on a bigger house mortgage to keep an aging bitch happy?
No no no no. I’m assuming that shit is out of the equation. Give up that side, but assuming that you don’t earn enough to keep up the luxury of a whore per week. I’m sure there are many guys out there who have this problem. Yeah, the solution is to earn more, but…
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1200$/month for 4 escorts is at the higher range of prices. It is typically closer to 220-260$/hr, and many independents charge less for repeat customers. Once you understand the local escort scene, it is closer to 800$/month for 4 escorts.
800$/month is about the rent of a decent 1-bedroom apartment in most cities.
For the sake of this calculation, I am assuming that you are in otherwise good physical health.
Ok.. let’s say you make 15 $/hr (40 hours per week) = 2,400 $/month before taxes, share an apartment with a roommate (500$/month) and drive an older second hand car (TCO= 400$/month).. Even after food (300$/month), booze (100$/month), clothes (50$/month), utility(50$/month), cable+ internet (100$/month), cellphone bills (100$/month), you could still get about 2 escorts (400-500$) a month. But you will have to choose between clubbing and pooning.
If you made between 20-25$/hr, had your own one bedroom apartment (800$/month), and a newish but average car (TCO= 700$/month), even after all necessities.. you could spare about 700$/month (3 escorts). Once again, you will have to choose between clubbing and pooning.
Once you make over 30$/hr, you can poon about 4 times/ month and do a fair bit of clubbing… unless you live in a super-expensive city.
Consider the size of the average child support to a bitch who does not even fuck you.
It’s probably even a better option for those who don’t feel the need to get laid four times a month or more. I enjoy sex, but usually after I “get my fix” with an enjoyable sexual experience after a long dry spell, I can go for months being content without having sex again. After three months rolls around, the itch will take over again and need to be scratched.
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Or you could do escorts + booty calls+ flings + STRs.
I haven’t experienced an escort before, but it is an avenue that I’ve been seriously reaching. While I have had limited success with ‘game’, I still don’t exactly enjoy the experience, and find that the investment is not really worth the return. I could invest more in perfecting my game with slightly better returns, but I really have no desire to make a hobby out of it. There are other ways that I’d prefer to spend my time.
Devil advocate,for 3000 Euros you can bang 100 polish escorts.the median price here for escorts with everything included is 30 euros and 70 AT MOST .just chk out sites like odloty,pl and roksa,pl .I find it amazing most people dont know about Poland as a pooning paradise.instead theyd go to Thailand and pay 3x that amount for a unsafe street whore.Polish girls are fair and blond wich most men prefer over Asian women.
I myself was revealed about this,thru a Polish friend.a luxury condo there costs only 300 a month.its now my goal to move to Gdansk or Gdynia ,poland and bang 100s of bitches for a cheap price(I will take out a loan soon for 6000 Euro and bang 200 escorts there).
its a well kept secret ,poland as a p4p heaven:)
We all pay for sex – one way or another. Learning game takes hundreds-of-hours of self-study and “field” training. Even if you’re not buying women drinks, you’re buying your own drinks. Or devoting hours to learning how to pick up women rather than billing for your time in your professional endeavor. Or starting a business.
At my current billing rate, learning game has cost me five figures of opportunity costs – assuming I would have been working rather than doing game.
Ih that sense, DA is right. There is no such thing as unpaid sex. You are paying for sex with money (prostitutes) or with time-and-money (seducing women; paying for dates; opportunity cost).
Personally, I enjoy running game. It’s my very expensive hobby. Better than golf or tennis. I do not, however, adjudicate as losers people who choose to rely on prostitutes.
Those who so judge people like D.A. are illogical, and lack a basic understanding of economics – including opportunity costs.
It is an expensive hobby. $300/hr., 4 times per month, 1200 x 12.
That’s $1200 a month. That’s not even 25% of a mortgage payment where I live.
How many men would “own” a home if it weren’t for women? What’s the delta between renting a house a guy wants, and a mortgage?
Once you start doing the math, you realize that it’s married/LTR men who pay the most for sex.
Plus, every hour some cunt is nagging at you is an hour you’re not building a business. Energy spent reasoning with the unreasonable is energy you’re not using to further your career.
You really should think deeply about what specifically you get out of a relationship; how much time and money you spending. Calculate direct and indirect costs.
Most guys just count the cost of dates. Yet isn’t buying new clothes something most guys do to impress women? See, generally, Geoffrey Miller’s Spent.
How much money do women really cost you? Figure that out. Then ask: Is it worth it?
In economics, all values are subjective. So if you enjoy spending time and money on an LTR, I won’t judge. Yet I do insist that you not lie about what the LTR is costing you.
in poland its only 30 euros an hour.see websites such as odloty(dot)pl and roksa(dot)pl.
in germany there are flatrate brothels,where you pay one price and can bang how many bitches you want.
(sorry I cant put Links or the comment doesnt show)
Ensuring genetic immortality through kids? Well, are Roosh and Roissy and any of the PUAs really ensuring their genetic immortality? None of them have kids.
Women have their function in life. no man needs their company, they need to be taken care by them. But, in the case of America and other parts of the world, you have facilities that makes you need women less. So the only thing left is sex which you can get paid easily.
However, why not have escorts for more than one hour? Why not rent an escort for a month for example? Isn’t a wife a rented escort after all?
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Why pay to hang around women after sex?
If you ask me, I prefer the ways of the prophets and kings, like Abraham had Hagar.
Indeed, after thinking about it, why need them more than sex? Is it going to make a difference whether they stay or leave? Why need something after its specific use?
I think Roosh and Roissy more enjoy the chase than the catch.
Amazing post.
I think Mike makes a good point that you always pay for it, whether time and energy spent in PUA or straight up money for escorts. And the married or LTR guys always pay the most for sex by far, that’s why they’re betas aka providers.
Great post, one minor thing though…
“What is the real difference between women who tells you that model level women are out of your league and a PUA who tells you the same, albeit worded to make it sound more reasonable.”
What kind of lousy, insulting, exploitive PUA authors are you referring to?? I’ve never come across one who implied in any way that there are limits to how hot a girl you can achieve (low-tech non-PUA relationship “advice” doesn’t count).
If anything, they all promise you’ll be banging 10’s, if for no other reason than to sell more books.
That’s very true about the ridiculous promises some PUA gurus make. I think BradP is the only guru really worth anything since he kinda started learning outside the PUA culture.
What he means is that PUA Gurus tell you these women are out of your league (generally true), yet falsely promise that their product will provide you the capacity to get 8-10 girls consistantly. They both have the same basic message which is that you need to improve yourself to get these girls.
I’ll give it to Roissy that he is honest enough to say that game will only take you so far. If you are a 2 on the dating market value, you can shoot for a 3-4 girl on the dating market.
He also makes a good point that the Four Sirens of the Sexual APocalypse along with the obesity epidemic are driving the price of pussy way up.
Whatever floats your boat. The attractiveness of most American escorts in the $ range you specify is too low to keep me from gaming, though if I can ever regularly afford $1000 escorts, I would probably get most of my bangs from them.
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Hmm.. maybe I should address that issue in a future post.
I like the view from the top of a mountain, but would feel more satisfied if I climb it myself rather than take a helicopter to the top. Either way, the view is nice.
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You don’t know what the view from the top of the mountain looks like. You can say that after you cum into a few women who go on to be successful in careers that require looks.
The 1000 dollar escorts are way overrated and more of a status symbol than anything else. Look at Spitzer’s hooker. She really wasn’t that attractive compared to the girls out there.
Really good post. Mike mentioned most people don’t understand economics, this calculator will give the general idea of how much he’s paying for sex (opp cost is huge)
http://www.costofsex.com/ gf
http://www.costofsex.com/married_sex_cost.shtml wife
http://www.costofsex.com/cost_of_getting_laid.html pick up
The problem with this logic is that you are discounting the women who earn their own money, and thus don’t have their partner spend things on them.
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Curiously, these women are just as greedy and needy as those without a decent job.
When I get married, my fiance is getting a partner who will have her own job (though we would both like me to stay at home while breastfeeding future children, and possibly until they start school, but that’s due to compatible views on child rearing and was discussed before the engagement– he was raised by a stay at home mom and a working dad and thinks that’s pretty ideal, though I think I’d go crazy if I never went back to work), who will cook him dinner that costs less than going out to eat and tastes better than what he can cook, who ll share housecleaning duties, who will have sex with him pretty much whenever he wants, and who will participate in intelligent conversation and have fun with him since we have a lot of overlapping interests/hobbies.
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You are lying to YOURSELF.
Women like me aren’t rare, either. Granted, we’re rare in some areas of the country, but a lot of women– especially feminist women– are not interested in men that are going to pay for everything and treat us like overgrown children.
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So why do so many women like to be spanked, and I am not talking about a few smacks during sex.
Yes, there are some drawbacks for men– but those also exist for women. He can’t have sex with random women?
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Escorts are pretty close to random hotties, but they are good looking and nice to you (atleast the ones of non west-european ancestry).
Well, I can’t have sex with random women or men either. Unless we have a threesome, but you get my point.
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Threesome.. hmm..
He loses some free time? Not really– we actually LIKE each other, and I’m not about to begrudge him time with other friends or alone time. Sure, there are some limits on how he’ll spend his money– he can’t bankrupt us on beer and videogames, but I also can’t bankrupt us on shoes– and since we’re keeping separate accounts as well as a joint for household expenses, he won’t even be funding any shoes I buy. Really, there is very little cost to him getting laid– and he’s getting laid by someone who knows what he likes, how he likes it, and who enjoys indulging his kinks, as well as someone he can fuck without any preparation.
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In an ideal world.. But in reality, even average women KNOW that they deserve the “best”, and western society does nothing to dissuade this delusion.
There was a time when a somewhat better-than-average looking women, who enjoyed sex and did not sabotage my life would have been good enough. But no longer..
Not really. He’s discounting the whole notion of marriage and dating because it is just a crappy deal to begin with. It is beyond crappy in the western world die to socioeconomic and technological circumstances.
Who needs an ever-present judge that is constantly testing him? and really doesn’t care about him so much as how he makes her feel.
I just can’t look back anymore. It just amazes me the price that men pay for what simply boils down to sex.
If women did not have a vagina, I would love with a guy. They are emotionally more stable. At this point, I’m looking at escorts, I’m diverting my beer funds to that…
A good reasoning behind why all those guys “women only see as a backup plan” should feel ZERO guilt about paying for sex:
Horace
Hey Shane 653,
Very good answer! Couldn’t have said it better myself!
I would highly advise you to be as picky as possible. Get exactly who you pay for and never ever settle for anyone less. Not when choosing an escort that’s for sure. More women, young and middle-aged, with less than stellar looks are getting into the hooker trade. It makes more sense for these not-so-attractive ladies to dive right into the sex trade business if they want some action. Tall guys don’t want them and settling down with a short guy is a no-no. Her solution? Sacrifice her ego and pride while taking a job getting paid to have sex with the guys that society deems inferior. Trust me, she has no problems taking money from the short guy as long as he’s not courting her for a real relationship. At the same time, she has no problems spreading her legs for free if the guy is tall and good looking. Heck, she’ll take her price tag down, close shop and pose normally if there’s the possibility of a legitimate date with the tall guy. She might even pay for the date herself.
The good-looking girls who are escorts are high quality, high caliber, high society hookers. You won’t get remotely close to those kind unless you shell out serious dollars. A lot of them have a high price tag just for the most minimal of services to begin with. Some won’t even take your money if you don’t physically appeal to them. Yes, heightism is alive and well, even in the sex trade business.
You do make a very good point. There’s no reason to feel guilty or shallow about paying for a service if it means you’re getting exactly what you want with your money.
Remember, getting paid to have sex that sometimes includes a free dinner, free drinks with free hotel fees is a ridiculously easy job for women.
Remember: women even complain about guys who pay for their food and drink, or have the gall to tell them “I have a boyfriend” AFTER the meeting that only includes just her and the interested guy.
No reason to be loyal before you’ve stirred the recently-voided nightsoil recess!
What is the real difference between women who tells you that model level women are out of your league and a PUA who tells you the same, albeit worded to make it sound more reasonable.
This topic is another work of art. But understand this…
In life, there are winners and losers (just like there’s black and white) and everybody ain’t gonna get what they want. A hard pill some folks don’t want to swallow is the reality is that life ain’t fair. My mother would say “people are unfair”.
The difference between a woman and a PUA (or most guys) saying it could be because of this… 1) The woman wants to rub salt in the wounds and tease you. Women don’t want to have sex with beta males, but they don’t want other women having sex with them either. 2) The PUA – like a male friend, or Alan Roger Currie (who knows his shit) – says it because they may not want you to waste your time and wake up to the reality that if a chick doesn’t want to have sex with you, you need to move on and not waste your time. It’s not different from people telling people whom they DO care about to stop “living above your means”.
You know, I’m unsure if you are familiar with the clown circus that is black YouTube and even “the negro manosphere” (only few guys withstanding). But that black clown Obsidian got called out by Alan Roger Currie. Obsidian could never get over his high school prom issues – girls he wanted rejected him and his own mother and sister told him those women were “out of his league”. So because his mother and sister hooks him up with some average-looking females, he snaps on his own mother and sister and stops speaking to them for 10+ years. This Obsidian clown is almost 50 and still can’t get over that.
Yes, every man (and woman) has a right to their preferences, but if they don’t like you and if they ARE “out of your league”, you have to accept that. Sure, there are some who can’t accept that, so they turn bitter, misogynistic, vent online or they become rapists, stalkers, mass murdering “incels” and other loonies who think they are too good pay for it – and dream of putting laws into legislation to control other people’s sexual choices. Which is sick and pathetic.