KBL on Z370: NO

[VegetableStu]

New-er thread: Kinda called it.

 

 

New thread: apparently it's implied the Land Maps are the same between SKL/KBL and CFL

 

source: https://nl.hardware.info/nieuws/53473/getest-kaby-lake-cpu-past-wel-maar-werkt-niet-in-intel-z370-moederbord

via: https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-kabylake-cpus-will-not-work-with-z370-motherboards-at-least-not-yet

 

EDIT: Translation! Credit to @samcool55! 

  On 9/20/2017 at 1:27 PM, samcool55 said:

nl.hardware.info article:

 

Sadly to many of us it's not possible to upgrade to one of Intels new Coffee Lake-CPU's with a Z170 or Z270 motherboard. Even tho both Kaby lake and Coffee Lake both use the same socket (1151), the are not compatible. Are there really physical differences between the sockets of a Z270 and Z370 motherboard? And does an 'old' Skylake or Kaby Lake CPU work in a Z370-board? We tested it.

 

-insert photo of cpu's-

 

For this quicktest we used an intel Z370 motherboard and a Kaby Lake-processor. We used an affordable Celeron G3930-processor to keep damage, if there will be any, to a minimum. The CPU did fit without any issues: physically is the 'new' socket 1151 identical to the CPU socket we know. Once installed we tried to boot the system. The motherboard powered on and started its self-test (i assume POST) but powered off during the last step (VGA) and started back from the beginning. Even with a dedicated graphics card the same thing happened. This is of course only 1 Z370 board, but we have no reasons for now to assume this will be different with other motherboards.

 

-insert little table-

 

In short, even tho they use physcially the same socket, Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake are in not a single way compatible with each other. Also installing an old cpu in a new socket or the other way round doesn't damage anything (well at least there's that then...) Anyway, if you already have a Skylake or Kaby Lake processor and want to upgrade to Coffee Lake, you will need to buy a new motherboard, a big extra hurdle you will need to take.

 

 

• The thing actually powered on O_O
• And survived!
• It power cycles from the VGA POST step. I think there might be something different with how PCIe is handled. CPU or Chipset changes?

 

==== Original Post pre-translation (off Videocardz.net) ===

 

So a few select reviewers got hand of Coffee Lake CPUs for testing recently, and--

 

... oh god the entire article's a single paragraph, so in points:

• Hardware.info test: YES
• KBL on Z370: NO
• CFL on Z270: NO
• Land Grid similarity: YES
• CPU keying similarity: YES
• Future BIOS possibility: DUNNO
• Opinion: NO
• Wait for Official Release Documentation: YES
• Opinion on making them work with each other: NO-ish
  • The PCH / Chipset just connects over the PCIe/DMI part of the CPU, so if that configuration changes...
  • Also Voltage pins
  • basically if anything switch places it's a no right out of the box
  • but no indicator if both CPUs survived the test (at least not that I understand of), so...
• Opinion if they're exactly the same: LOL
• Checked for duplicates: NO
• FUCKING SORRY: CRY

Pics:

 

  Quote

Kaby Lake on Left, Coffee Lake on Right

  Quote

Skylake/Kabylake Land Map (Source: Intel, Section 9)

 

EDIT: there's this parting sentence from Videocardz after 90% of the article saying it (currently at least) doesn't work:

  Quote

The new (Z370) motherboard should, however, already support Kabylake processors, unless, Intel had no plans for it.

??? is that opinion or speculation?

EDITx2: Added translation contribution!

EDITx3

Edited October 4, 2017 by VegetableStu

[JediFragger]

* INTEL MONEY GRABBING BASTARDS: YES

[Master Disaster]

  On 9/20/2017 at 11:06 AM, VegetableStu said:

via: https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-kabylake-cpus-will-not-work-with-z370-motherboards-at-least-not-yet

source: https://nl.hardware.info/nieuws/53473/getest-kaby-lake-cpu-past-wel-maar-werkt-niet-in-intel-z370-moederbord [translation needed]

 

So a few select reviewers got hand of Coffee Lake CPUs for testing recently, and--

 

... oh god the entire article's a single paragraph, so in points:

• Hardware.info test: YES
• KBL on Z370: NO
• CFL on Z270: NO
• Land Grid similarity: YES
• CPU keying similarity: YES
• Future BIOS possibility: DUNNO
• Opinion: NO
• Wait for Official Release Documentation: YES
• Opinion on making them work with each other: NO-ish
  • The PCH / Chipset just connects over the PCIe/DMI part of the CPU, so if that configuration changes...
  • Also Voltage pins
  • basically if anything switch places it's a no right out of the box
  • but no indicator if both CPUs survived the test (at least not that I understand of), so...
• Opinion if they're exactly the same: LOL
• Checked for duplicates: NO
• FUCKING SORRY: CRY

Pics:

 

 

TLDR

 

Intel had no actual need to make Coffee Lake incompatible, it is the exact same pinout as Sky/Kaby. They did it purely out of greed.

 

Sound about accurate?

[VegetableStu]

  On 9/20/2017 at 11:27 AM, Master Disaster said:

TLDR

 

Intel had no actual need to make Coffee Lake incompatible, it is the exact same pinout as Sky/Kaby. They did it purely out of greed.

 

Sound about accurate?

Still too early to tell, but yeah I'd like to hear about the "technical incompatibilities" from them first before making any opinions ._.

[Carclis]

INTEL NO!!!

[SpaceGhostC2C]

  On 9/20/2017 at 11:06 AM, VegetableStu said:

EDIT: there's this parting sentence from Videocardz after 90% of the article saying it (currently at least) doesn't work:

??? is that opinion or speculation?

I think they are just saying it's unlikely to be a pure BIOS thing: basically, they would expect Z370 to support KL the same way Z270 supports Skylake, since the motherboard is newer than the CPU. It only makes sense for older motherboards to need BIOS updates to support CPUs that didn't exist at launch.

However, it could be the case that these pre-release boards and BIOS only work with Coffee Lake, even if retail motherboards come with BIOS with more comprehensive support.

 

In other words, it would be weird for support for older CPUs to be added later, if compatible, but we can't be 100% sure it's not compatible at all.

 

To be honest, the whole thing looks closer to socket 771 vs socket 775 than to Z170 vs Z270 right now.

[mynameisjuan]

Why the hell would you buy a KL cpu with a Z370 anyway? All I see if more AMD fan bois finding something to bitch about.

[VagabondWraith]

  On 9/20/2017 at 12:16 PM, mynameisjuan said:

Why the hell would you buy a KL cpu with a Z370 anyway? All I see if more AMD fan bois finding something to bitch about.

So they can bitch about cpu socket support that they’ll never use anyway.

[Taf the Ghost]

  On 9/20/2017 at 11:27 AM, Master Disaster said:

TLDR

 

Intel had no actual need to make Coffee Lake incompatible, it is the exact same pinout as Sky/Kaby. They did it purely out of greed.

 

Sound about accurate?

There's been chatter that they actually had to shift because of real technical reasons, but it's not like they've said that one way or the other. Most likely because the 100-series wasn't designed with 6c and other things in mind, as they were supposed to have shifted to a new uArch & socket by now.

[NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle]

  On 9/20/2017 at 12:16 PM, mynameisjuan said:

Why the hell would you buy a KL cpu with a Z370 anyway? All I see if more AMD fan bois finding something to bitch about.

Get a G4560 now and later on get either an i5 or i7. That's why.

But it's not possible.

[Dan Castellaneta]

I'm sure there's a lot more to it other than exact same pin layout.

Let's think about it: Skylake and Kaby Lake boards were designed with those configurations in mind. Coffee Lake boards will be designed with that and whatever refresh comes then in mind. In fact I bet there's some things that required changing when it came to Coffee Lake that'd be too risky to also plaster on a Skylake or Kaby Lake board.

[Okjoek]

Raven Ridge about to come out with ~40% better graphics,

Old R7 iGPU using ddr3 still holds its own against mainstream Intel graphics

 

Intel still implementing HD 620/630 on new CPUs which itself was just a refresh of HD 520/30 from Skylake

[VegetableStu]

  On 9/20/2017 at 1:20 PM, Dan Castellaneta said:

I'm sure there's a lot more to it other than exact same pin layout.

yeah, so far there's no leaks on exactly which part of it, so we'd still have to wait for official release to see what's changed (in pinout, if any)

 

Still curious to find out if the CPUs survived the test, so if anyone knows Dutch....?

[mynameisjuan]

  On 9/20/2017 at 1:20 PM, NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle said:

Get a G4560 now and later on get either an i5 or i7. That's why.

But it's not possible.

Or just get an i5 or i7 now. 

 

I get people are on a budget but if you go that route you end up spending much more than just saving for a month or two and just getting what you want. And if they are on that tight of a budget they shouldnt be buying a new pc to begin with. Sorry I just hate budget builds. 

[Bananasplit_00]

well il be laughing when ASRock or someone releases a Coffee Lake BIOS update for their boards. but Intel probably flipped a few pins on it, but maybe you can do the sticker mod from back in the day with LGA 771 to LGA 775...

[samcool55]

@VegetableStu as requested, a translation!

 

My translation won't be perfect but it should be very close. Native dutch speaker so i fully understand the text but my english isn't flawless, probably a bit rough, might need a bit of work.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Sadly to many of us it's not possible to upgrade to one of Intels new Coffee Lake-CPU's with a Z170 or Z270 motherboard. Even tho both Kaby lake and Coffee Lake both use the same socket (1151), the are not compatible. Are there really physical differences between the sockets of a Z270 and Z370 motherboard? And does an 'old' Skylake or Kaby Lake CPU work in a Z370-board? We tested it.

 

-insert photo of cpu's-

 

For this quicktest we used an intel Z370 motherboard and a Kaby Lake-processor. We used an affordable Celeron G3930-processor to keep damage, if there will be any, to a minimum. The CPU did fit without any issues: physically is the 'new' socket 1151 identical to the CPU socket we know. Once installed we tried to boot the system. The motherboard powered on and started its self-test (i assume POST) but powered off during the last step (VGA) and started back from the beginning. Even with a dedicated graphics card the same thing happened. This is of course only 1 Z370 board, but we have no reasons for now to assume this will be different with other motherboards.

 

-insert little table-

 

In short, even tho they use physcially the same socket, Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake are in not a single way compatible with each other. Also installing an old cpu in a new socket or the other way round doesn't damage anything (well at least there's that then...) Anyway, if you already have a Skylake or Kaby Lake processor and want to upgrade to Coffee Lake, you will need to buy a new motherboard, a big extra hurdle you will need to take.

 

 

 

[NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle]

  On 9/20/2017 at 1:25 PM, mynameisjuan said:

Or just get an i5 or i7 now. 

 

I get people are on a budget but if you go that route you end up spending much more than just saving for a month or two and just getting what you want. And if they are on that tight of a budget they shouldnt be buying a new pc to begin with. Sorry I just hate budget builds. 

Well that's a poor way of seeing things. Some people just can't wait two months or even if they wait it won't increase their budget by the amount they actually need to go straight to the better offer.

So let's say the G4560 for example would've worked in Z730 motherboards, they get it now because they really need a pc now, and after a couple of months or maybe even a year when they have the possibility they can sell the G4560 and get i5 or i7 depending on what they can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VegetableStu]

  On 9/20/2017 at 1:27 PM, samcool55 said:

@VegetableStu as requested, a translation!

 

My translation won't be perfect but it should be very close. Native dutch speaker so i fully understand the text but my english isn't flawless, probably a bit rough, might need a bit of work.

Sweet! Thanks!

(If this goes on WAN, please mention @samcool55 instead of me, thanks!)

[mynameisjuan]

  On 9/20/2017 at 1:35 PM, NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle said:

Well that's a poor way of seeing things. Some people just can't wait two months or even if they wait it won't increase their budget by the amount they actually need to go straight to the better offer.

So let's say the G4560 for example would've worked in Z730 motherboards, they get it now because they really need a pc now, and after a couple of months or maybe even a year when they have the possibility they can sell the G4560 and get i5 or i7 depending on what they can.

 

People can wait. Unless its needed for work or school there is no point to budget builds. Like budget builds in the end cost more than just buying the equipment to start!!!

[VicBar]

  On 9/20/2017 at 12:16 PM, mynameisjuan said:

Why the hell would you buy a KL cpu with a Z370 anyway? All I see if more AMD fan bois finding something to bitch about.

It's more about upgrading from SKL or KBL TO Cofefe without having to buy a new expensive MB when the z170 r 270 you have works perfectly and is rated for OC. Nothing to do with "AMD fan bois". The test is impractical yes, but it was to find out more about compatibility, the fact that the pin layout is basically identical means the could have supported new cpus on older mobos, so they tried the inverse. Nowhere do they bitch about not using your KBL on your "new Z370".

[mynameisjuan]

  On 9/20/2017 at 1:59 PM, VicBar said:

Nowhere do they bitch about not using your KBL on your "new Z370".

 

Its literally the point of this thread......

 

 

[VicBar]

  On 9/20/2017 at 2:02 PM, mynameisjuan said:

 

Its literally the point of this thread......

 

 

That's the way they decided to test compatibility, but it's not the point they are trying to make...

 

[mynameisjuan]

  On 9/20/2017 at 2:11 PM, VicBar said:

That's the way they decided to test compatibility, but it's not the point they are trying to make...

But people are in uproar because they cant buy a KL and Z370 to then upgrade later to CL and are bitching about this being a money grab. Read the comments.

 

In the end buying a new mobo is not that big of a deal and as people upgrade every 3-4 years normally its around when a new mobo is needed for the current gen chip. This even applies to AMD

[VegetableStu]

for the record: the title was phrased as the meme here ._. should I change it?

[PCGuy_5960]

Coffeelake is not compatible with Z270, what makes people think that Kabylake is going to be compatible with Z370?